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 Subject :Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 06-11-2011 08:00:17 
Grävling
Dungeon Master
Joined: 04-11-2011 16:46:04
Posts: 96
Location

There is a problem with the difficulty of the game when you first start it.  Killing a rat with your rusty sword is a fairly difficult feat, and  not being able to heal automatically means that getting from level 1 to level 2 may be the hardest thing you need to do, especially if you come to this game ignorant on how these sorts of games work.

And this is a shame, because the newbies who never make it are the ones who think they have wasted their money (if they spent any) and who don't want to waste their money (if they haven't).  There are a few things you  could do to make things easier for such people.

The first thing you can do is to let people select a few skills at character start up time.  So a would-be magician could select a distance weapon spell, and a fighter could select a sword skill, and everybody could select 'renenerate hp slowly'.  I think selecting 3 or 4 would be about right.  Currently the game is unbalanced, time-wise, in that it ends before you get a chance to experiment with many spells, because level progression is slow compared to the number of spells out there.  The skills, on the other hand, I think are too powerful, which is lack of balance of another sort.

The second thing which the inexperienced need to know is that at the early levels (and forever, if you are a magician by trade) the game is won using ranged weapons -- especially now as the monsters are not smart enough to rush you.  The storekeeper could inform newbies of the fact, though even better would be to re-write the first level sort of the way that the Baldur's Gate game did, with having a training session.  Have the level-1 storekeeper ask you to clean out one of his storerooms on this level which is infested with toothless baby rats, and squishable spiders.  They can attack, but do little or no damage -- much less than the standard rat, at any rate.  I'd make several rooms -- or 'ooops, oh dear, now the baby mice are dead, but some spiderlings have have moved in, I wonder if you would mind doing that again'.

Another mistake of the inexperienced is to turn around and flee from monsters, which allows them 2 free bashes on you.  They should be informed that they should run backwards keeping their weapons between themselves and the monsters.

Finally, they should be told that corridors are their friends.  Most new players of these sorts of games  think they can be trapped in a corridor -- at least when we play-tested them in the late 80s and early 90s ,  this could have changed for the next generation, but I doubt it -- and so instinctively run to the middle of an open room when being attacked.  This is, of course, the worst place they can go.  A bit of narrative explainging this the first time you enter the dungeon would not be amiss, and would probably help sales -- if you still have a demo version.

Grävling

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Last Edited On: 07-11-2011 07:25:57 By Grävling for the Reason fix typo and one place s/skills/spells/ which is what I meant to say
 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 06-11-2011 19:08:03 
codezombie
Zombie Programmer
Joined: 14-06-2010 21:54:27
Posts: 345
Location

Yeah, there are certainly a plethora of things that can be done to make the game better, and I keep updating the game to add in things that do that.  Dungeon Crawler and RPG games are insanely complex games to make.  Especially for one person who is doing all the programming.

I can certainly expand the first level to include some simpler enemies and perhaps a quest which would take them to level 2 or 3 and give them some money to properly equip their character.  I could also give them more starting equipment.  Perhaps some healing potions.

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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 06-11-2011 21:56:26 
Grävling
Dungeon Master
Joined: 04-11-2011 16:46:04
Posts: 96
Location
Are you programming this thing in java?
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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 06-11-2011 22:02:16 
codezombie
Zombie Programmer
Joined: 14-06-2010 21:54:27
Posts: 345
Location
Yep
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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 28-06-2012 10:57:35 
KomaKaze
Adventurer
Joined: 28-06-2012 04:58:02
Posts: 4
Location
 

Improving the learning-curve for newbies is fine, as long as it doesn't ruin the fun for more experienced gamers.

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Last Edited On: 28-06-2012 11:04:03 By KomaKaze for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 05-07-2012 03:37:52 
laurac
Dungeon Crawler
Joined: 03-07-2012 02:35:54
Posts: 12
Location: The wet coast

Just to add to this, there's a massive difficuly increase between level 15 and 16 - so much so that my ranged character,who has had almost no trouble until now, cannot progress any farther because she is stuck between two of the swamp hydras and can never win even with four levels of multi arrows and four levels of increased health regen. Most gamers are like me, I think, and expect aneven difficuly curve, not a sudden exponential increase. I hate to have to start all over without beating the game but it looks like that's the case. Otherwise I thought the learning curve was good.

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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 05-07-2012 03:53:41 
LordLancelot
Dungeon Crawler
Joined: 05-07-2012 03:34:32
Posts: 12
Location
We need an option to replace stats and skill chosen in exchange for gold. That way when you make errors and we all will, we can try new option without having to restart with a new character.
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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 05-07-2012 08:24:01 
codezombie
Zombie Programmer
Joined: 14-06-2010 21:54:27
Posts: 345
Location
Yeah, the swamp hydras are pretty tough. I try to throw in a difficult creature type each area that will be harder than other creatures. For the most part, creatures are of similar power for each level. For the hydras, you need to have lots of cure poison potions. Try to keep some distance, all of their attacks are melee.
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 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 06-07-2012 11:44:39 
Skaffel
Dungeon Crawler
Joined: 12-10-2011 20:44:46
Posts: 19
Location

I've got a comment regarding the difficulty of the game, not regards earlier player levels though, but rather for the more experienced characters, around player level 25 and up...

As I have experienced it, the monster difficulty and the abilities of your character, with some exceptions, increase at the same rate, with the consequence that largely, it is as difficult to complete the game with a level 20 character as it is with a level 30 character.

The exceptions: as some of the monsters progress they become much more effective in killing you in one strike. For me, first it was the Hobgoblin Maniacs (or was it the brawlers..?) that were able to end me with a single, sudden firey blow, and then, as my chacter gained some player levels, it was the Unstable Gaseous Balls that instant-poisoned me to death. (this is the experiences of a magician chacacter, so perhaps not that much on HP or a very heavy armour)

Personally, what I would wish for, is that the more passive difficulty of the monster would increase more, e.g. if their HP curve were steeper than the damage curve of your chatacter, and/or that the number of monster progessed more clearly as your player level progresses. In that way it is increasingly challenging to complete the game the more experienced your character is, but not only in the sense that the risk of getting insta-killed increases, but rather in the way that you have to fight the monster more, and/or fight more monster going through the dungeons.

As an exampel: when I first went up against the Tentacled Horror, guessing my character was player level 15 or so, it took an endless amount of fireballs to defeat it. 10 player levels later, having been able to max out on charge, cloth and staff in addition to the already maxed fire ball (and, I guess, having found better equipment to add even more to the magic stats) the TH went down after about five hits. So, in 10 player levels the amount of damage my character can deal has increased far more than the damage the monsters can withstand. Of course, in one sense this seems fair, it reflects that the character is becoming better and is better skilled and better equipped. Still, I think it could be worth considering balancing things differently, at least for characters approaching and beyond pl.lvl 30. I´m thinking that finding the best equippment, maxing your skills and so on need not to be a matter of being increasingly able to dominate the monsters, but rather to what you need to do to barely survive.

Thanks, hoping that the post is possible to follow OK

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Last Edited On: 06-07-2012 22:02:40 By Skaffel for the Reason added example, and some additional thought in the matter
 Subject :Re:Improving the learning-curve for newbies.. 08-07-2012 06:24:28 
codezombie
Zombie Programmer
Joined: 14-06-2010 21:54:27
Posts: 345
Location
Well, I like to have at least one creature at all levels that would be dangerous to the player. Which one is most difficult is usually dependent on skills and equipment. As for the tentacled horror, you might have beaten him on the verge of his next species upgrade. Every 5-15 levels, creatures gain enhanced attacks and stats. Bosses are no exception.
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